Videos

Halachic Issues Regarding Autopsy and Organ Donation (Rabbi Kenneth Brander)

Added Feb 16, 2016 •

Copy this URL:
Embed code:	<iframe class="edlio-embed-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="360" src="//www.yeshivahs.org/apps/embed/?v=103987" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Change dimensions

Show Transcript

one of the hardest challenges the movie in from Florida to New Jersey was I had to give up my Florida license so is my New Jersey license there's nothing in the back of this license about being an organ donor  okay but here is an organ donor card that carry that says that I do want to give organs and it prescribes the protocols and which I want to give organs is called the holla donor Society card so I want to ask you a question what are  why should one want to give skins and what could be some of the challenges of giving organs then we'll back into our conversation about the other things yes from here to Hollywood Bowl, last name so you wouldn't want to give organs because you're supposed to bury all the body parts we learned even the blood is important everything's okay and then you would want to give it because you know you're saving a life and you're supposed to usually there are exceptions to Mitzvahs when it involves saving somebody's life okay great thank you Pella anyone else anyone else want just any reasons why you should give organs you shouldn't give organs yes Emily I'm Levi so bright red hair hasn't changed okay  okay  I bet if you went home tonight and you ask your parents if they are organ donors vast majority of them would say it is not a Jewish thing to give organs sorry Oregon all your live like you're sucking like kidneys and when you're alive they're still complications because you can't do anything to risk your own life and leave you have to it's for a reason in case one of them doesn't work properly but time someone else that I'm not okay so at the end of it when you fall out on this idea of giving a kidney while you're alive just cuz my cousin donated kidney for bringing up pretty good reasons why I might be a problem as I said I bet you if you go home and you ask your parents the vast majority of them are not working donors even though they're fine wonderful people and that's I think because there's a adoption in the Orthodox Community or in the Jewish Community regarding the whole notion of organ donation so we brought out that one of the issues was that we should be buried with our body is there any other reasons why there could be an issue about Not Giving organs but when you voted we are live at you could put yourself at risk are you allowed to put yourself at risk to save somebody else what else name  Maya okay that you're not supposed to desecrate your body so by one shirt if it's not benefiting you once your dad your dick you're cutting into your body discontinued you said you a lot of cutting too bad it's not your body  how do you say one second how do you say mine in Hebrew  mine mine but even the word Shelly is a conjunction of two words Shockley it's connected to me there's really no he who word that represents total ownership because the truth is we don't own our bodies with their given to us as gift so what right do we have to desk stem cell to say in the life we cut him open ordering life and we give organs that could be one of the issues yes hey Francine also there's that we don't really know how I bodies will be in the title michea and if we'll need all of our Oregon State  okay that's a pretty good have issued to bring up yes so what great everything that you brought up is really the point of our sources here together set the point-counterpoint the point-counterpoint regarding the issue of desecration of one's body the fact it's not yours fact that you can save life  and then there's one other issue that I didn't expect it went to bring up in that is  well one issue was brought up in that is can you to what extent can you put your life at risk to help somebody else I have two kidneys somebody else needs a kidney I can live with one kidney but if I live with butter say happens to that kidney I put myself at risk OB it because I gave a kidney I go to the top of the list of getting a donor kidney but the bottom line is I put myself at risk and the bigger the biggest issue that we haven't brought up but we should bring up and hopefully we'll do tackle today is what is the definition of death what's the definition of death is the definition of death that your heart stops working and your brain stops working if that's the definition of death there's a whole bunch of Oregon's you can't donate they simply are no longer fresh enough to be to be donor organ when the blood stops pulsating into a certain Oregon they're no longer can be Harvest properly or is the definition of death something is the definition of death Jewish definition of death that the heart can still be beating but the brain totally stops huh sing as if the brain is decapitated from from the rest of the body what is the definition of death that's a major issue so for example if I say the definition of death and we'll get into this is that the brain is no longer working there's a whole bunch of Oregon's if the heart if I continue to keep the artificially pumping so then I can give a liver one second I can give the liver I can actually even maybe give my heart there's a whole bunch of other organs that are fresh can donate but if you say the definition of death is that the heart has to stop also I can still give my cornea I can still give a few other organs but a bulk of organs that didn't give I won't be able to give that it could give if my if the definition of death is only that the heart that the brain stuff and what part of the brain does it mean stuff working does it mean the higher levels of the brain what we would call an EEG then we'll get into that or does it mean brain stem function and we'll have to understand that those are critical issues for you to know why do they critical for you to know that this young gay because you're going to make decisions regarding the donation of organs you're going to be asked to fill out all different types of forms you're going to about that unfortunately in life you'll be confronted with experiences on these issues you're going to go out there to the larger world  whoever you decide to go to university and these are issues that are going to be discussed and it is important that you understand them through the prism of Jewish values and finally far too often. Community are have no problem taking organs but because we haven't worked out these issues that you brought up they have difficulty giving it's time for us to have a conversation about that you had a question don't have a question yes Just a Dream not working all these other issues with what you do with that said dead person like that you're supposed to be buried as soon as possible and technically they're still alive the artificial artificial beating of the heart and then you can do whatever you want you just turn it off if that's definition of death dead  cut into their  what if they're dead assuming that's a violation of a busy or how mate of this equation of the Dead  fat lip that's what we think right that's all good questions those are the issues with okay we're ready let's look at the sources Source number one  Source number one is a Pizookie who march with a Pursuit tells us that even if a person deserves and this only Nick Mara tells us it happened once in 70 years it was considered a Jewish court that was aggressive on issues of capital punishment so didn't capital punishment turns in happen that much but the bottom line is that if a person commits a sin worthy of death and he's put to death upon hanging on a tree his body not remain overnight it must be buried immediately must be buried in the same day because of the responsibility of the vomit that we don't want to desecrate the deceased even somebody who deserves capital punishment and the town that insource number to says that's why we know that one cannot benefit at all a deceased from a dead person so the question then becomes if you can't benefit from the dead as we discuss for whatever reasons the question then becomes then perhaps donating organs should be something that's totally forbidden this idea of not benefiting from the dead is not just applied to juice it applies to non-jews also Source number 3 the show Hunter Road tells us mom they know they could have even been useful Teresa assuming bahana even the shroud what are forbidden with plet a pleasure from them other than two very deceased and they're ensure we the body and its source number more we're told ass or lalena to meet you must bury a person right away with one exception and that is if I not burying him right away or her play the spelling the burial relatives will be able to come to the funeral and pay tribute to the deceased that there's kavod how mace that there's honor the for the deceased yes great great Point name Maria Mia's point is actually the next source source number five in the 1700s Reggae Festival Landau the no w. real biography for him for you rights as the following question let's turn to the next page  you have a situation where someone died in London  and they are concerned that the person has a certain disease or certain illness and the only way to save other people is to do an autopsy is it permitted to do an autopsy in order to save other people now the one hand there is this Earth is the probation of Needville high mace desecration of the deceased on the other hand there is the commandant of wives  and that overrides everything so the note to be who does says you don't have to ask me this question the answer is perfectly articulated and that is Saving Lives comes first and therefore the note that you would have says the following look we're on page 2 of 9 we're not going to read the whole Source inside look at where I folded the words and I've made him a little longer to second paragraph middle of 2 of 19 page 219 and have underlined it that  Haim with verum Hobart William lemisha amraam cubavana hanita the deception of the body a not busy Young wow is not considered a disgrace other Abba the opposite Komodo it is actually an honor for the deceased because the deceased is call able to use their body still to perform a Mitzvah and what's that Mitzvah to save another life so what we don't permit autopsies randomly why do many times in Boca with somebody died in a unusual way or sometimes the unusual way should require an autopsy and sometimes can usual way what at shouldn't require autopsy fruit sample remember a case in in Deerfield Beach where a older man must have 75 or so with crossing the street by Military Trail and a Truck one of these play Mungus Gino trucks that are bringing food to ShopRite or someplace like that a truck actually hit him as he was crossing they check the truck and instead of it having the six breaks that it normally has six set of brakes when you press on the brakes six to the brakes only two or functional and a man was killed  set up the medical examiner wanted to do an autopsy for free that the 75 year old when he was crossing the street was drunk and maybe it wasn't wasn't the fault of the of the person of the truck driver the first of all we know that four of his six we're not working secondly you can take a blood and get an alcohol reading and thirdly you know the chances of a 75 year old you know getting stoned drunk and crossing the street when we know that the brakes of the truck we're not functional is a you know it's not the thing to do a real serious autopsy about and we had a conversation with the medical examiner not to do a full autopsy cuz that would be total nibble how many total Destruction of the of the deceased but if there's another case where I remember the doctor Kyle Bloom ask me a question where young child died and the family had other children and the medical examiner and the doctors wanted to do a small an autopsy on the baby that died because I wanted to make sure that the other children didn't have the same disease of the same challenge that's the case of the NoDa Buda where you're a autopsy to be able to save another person's life should be permitted  so heat what can we learn on this note of you who the regarding cutting into a body to save somebody else's life is that considered desire how nice is that considered destroying out is that your niece off the table so to say when it comes to being able to save someone else's life by doing an autopsy that doesn't mean you know you can do anything you want you limit the autopsy and in our day and age with MRIs and x-rays and stuff like that you don't always have to do the same type of WhatsApp see that you had to do even five or ten years ago but the bottom it is noted in the 1700s gives us guideposts of how to deal with some of these issues that's the first important point  the second important going to Source number 6 where the rambam tells us the following maimonides tells us a source number six how goes Ace Highway who could cry Moldova  acco essays is a critically ill patient it's a patient and said it's a turn that could die at any moment every moment of life is considered important we do not have the right to Snuff out a person's life turn one moment earlier  there can be a sixteen-year-old kid in the Next Room that needs the heart of this 95 year old who's going to die in a minute but that 16 year old is going to die in 5 minutes can you end the can you end the old person's life 10 minutes earlier to say 16 year old the answer is no you cannot end someone's life early to save somebody else's it's not our lives to make decisions we are Gods Junior Partners we're not God and everybody was given the gift of life you cannot you cannot you can compromise life and the rambam probably don't remember this long because it's little before your time around bomb who wrote the words before I think this is a song from Elton John write the Mazda Dome at Lanier submitted submitted so I can don't like in the wind that you can't that you can't blow it out faster that's what the wrong, right so it is permitted to open a body that's deceased to help find a cure or to help somebody else but a person who is on their deathbed will die v minutes later and if someone in the next one that you can save and a differences who only live for 10 minutes 10 minutes left you don't have to write to do that yes name okay yes what is that 95  actually  body like ventilators and stuff so that's the death that's the mission is what is the definition of life so that we have to get to Rachel so that's a very important question but let's assume for one moment let's assume for one moment the purse is is living from purely healthy perspective still alive but Rachel will get to your point yes Topsy that is a great question so the node be who to give those parameters also I didn't want to go into them but he says it has to be that I'm Nate that sing the person that you can save is actually somebody who is in front of you which by the way in a global world doesn't mean that the living on the same on the same country but if you know somebody has a disease and that disease is spreading different parts of the world and by doing the autopsy you can help someone in Rwanda play the guys the person will the doctors in that hospital will be simply you know communicating with you that is like a maze in front of you but you don't the right to do autopsies for scientific exploration  Southern o2b Hooter rights a limit to what position homemade means and bazillion handmade  on some level allows you to do that but you have be careful and that's one of the challenges actually when you when you when you're part of a you Shiva that's also University and it has one of the top high schools in the country and you have to do autopsies and research how do you make sure you do that within the halacha parameters which we must do cuz we're at our institution but that's a very good question but our conversation I'm happy to continue more of it online with you but for our conversation the parameters that the notary who does sets down and it's actually the final parts of source number five noted it says that the that the person that you want to help has to be the fun of it can't be because you'll discover something to help somebody in 6 months from now or 6 years from now or 60 years now that's not good enough  okay  yes do the same rules about desecration of the body of tides and non-jews that's a good question so the random says it does we play statues in the Jews there are certain Liberties that and you have that use don't have but the old arching protocol is exactly the same and that is that we treat every sin every single human being is a gift of God therefore they need to be treated with respect on issues of autopsies it might be that you're permitted to do autopsies on non-jews Save Somebody even if they're not in front of you that might be a leniency there but but you can't for zample if the case that we gave 15 minutes to live and a person turn the Next Room the child is 16 year old child who needs the heart or the five-year-old child that needs a heart could be an orthodox shomer Shabbos Jew and the and the 85 year old could be your non-jew you cannot hasten the non-jews life to save the Jewish kid even even by 30 seconds let alone two 10 minutes example that I gave you yes time do scientific question this morsel somebody cuz he has to question even though medicine has shown that there wasn't really any serious research benefit benefits but what happens you known cases who have people who were went through experimentation by the Nazis and they were totally mistreated totally totally mistreat it you know mendelez experiments are there any benefits that you're allowed to drive from that which highlights all standards of medical ethics by the way the whole field of medical ethics was actually born as a response in many ways to the horrors of of the happened in Nazi Germany experiments  I think research has shown there wasn't that much benefit to hypothermia and other things that nature I think that I think that some of it willy-nilly we have you know there have been some it if if anything simply you learned things that that didn't make a difference so you were you pursued other past the research that suggests that no one everyone close their eyes and ignored it I think would not be a full truthful statement on it but I think for the most part we have not really benefited from the research of the half-hour with mango head because it wasn't there what it wasn't a scientific it was more it didn't achieve the goals that it wanted to achieve wheel there were people in this any by the way they're no longer living but they were people in this community who actually we're people who lived after being experimented on by mentally they were actually starters Community some of them yes which means I would that affect this yesterday you cannot destroy you can't hurt somebody you cannot hurt somebody else in order to save your life Sushin 75 year old be able to give his heart to somebody else that would be suicide someone points a gun at him and says you kill this person or I'll kill you but you cannot volunteer to give up your life to save somebody else it's not your life what's not active passes  if somebody comes up with you and says kill this person or else I'll kill you  you at you're not allowed to kill somebody else in order to save yourself your blood is not any redder than the other person's blood that does not mean one second that does not mean that you are allowed to sack play some moments of your life to be able to save somebody else and active passive temperature so that's a great so I have a son who at this as we're speaking right now is patrolling and stem okay he's a sharpshooter patrolling and slam so it's it's it's safe to say although I hope it'll never happen that is life isn't slight risk or he wouldn't be wearing a bulletproof vest when he Patrols wouldn't being a special protective car and he wouldn't have to you know carry 60 lb of gear with him and he wouldn't need a Sharp Shooters right so the question is how can you have anyone in the Army so then what happened and that's a great question I wish I would have thought of that question where my signed up to volunteer to be a holiday but the bottom line is that we're told that there are certain rules that actually supersede the premise of life bane of most importance and that is saving the Jewish people Nerf war in war in war the laws of the coop nephesh suspended  and I think it's safe to say that unfortunately Israel's in the state of War  and therefore those laws are suspended not that I would ever any Israeli soldier harm let alone my own child who actually the first event that happened in this building was his bris  so what about the same laws applying to the homeless somebody chose to piano where is your wife for your family hiding and if you told them they tell you that we would save your life that didn't happen so there I think first of all you never want I'm not going to judge anybody on those issues because I'm not in you know he and I think in those cases the Notions of martyrdom actually the laws get changed because the robin tells us in cases where there is a shot time of anti-Semitism which which the Holocaust is definitely. Like that these walls change and to go through it and greater devils in more than one to do with the Torah achieving the purpose of why you invited me here but I think they're it's a different issue we have not only for that we have from the Crusader period of time I was just of that nature Masada other issues like that, unfortunately the Jewish history is replete with those challenging question yes we have take these two questions and we have to go on yes we're going to work backwards please go to somebody who's like you know really old and they can't really function so much anymore so let's assume this seventy-five-year-old you know can only eat from a feeding tube actually use it so what if you're not even using it anymore versus somebody else who's the owner and can run the marathon if he gave them just your heart so again a line in the sand that we need to set because we're going to at the conclusion of this conversation we're going to highlight the responsibility to give organs  I'll be at we have to do what's the definition of death are but it's important that we create a Line in the Sand and that line in the sand is the fact that we are not the owners of our Bobby and we don't have a the compromised life even for as around on quoting Elton John says Where The Candle in the Wind we don't have the right able to do that too to Snuff out our life even one minute earlier than God takes away from us in order can you help somebody else that is not something that were permitted to do and if we start Crete if we start in the name of helping others you start the siding there are no laws then there's Anarchy and when there's when there's Anarchy at the end of the day people won't be helped they actually will be held killed Jonathan sacks actually just gave it to a cat while you where he actually said there's four major examples of rebellions that have made it I don't remember all for democracy can watch it on while you tell her if you have any interest that democracy was based on the in Revolution which he still getting over the American Revolution was based on the Bible communism was based on telling people we know what the American Revolution and democracy actually was a transformational experience  and communism turned out to be some things that didn't power people but actually enslave people there have to be legal structures and if we're going to talk about giving don't can we need to create the principles from which those structures come from or else what will happen is we will live in a world in which people will decide that this person who diabetes and is 55 years old he's not going to live a productive life or she's not over productive life why not give her his heart to somebody who's five years old we have to follow pause how long has created wonderful protocols for us and therefore we're going through some of them okay for two more questions and we got to move forward will the answer okay so by the way this idea about every moment of life being important is highlighted in source 7 + Source number 7 says what happens if you have an anti-semitic doctor  are you allowed to bring a patient to an anti-semitic doctor so the camera says that if you know for sure the person is going to die without that doctor you can bring him so they can borrow it says what do you mean maybe the infant's neck doctor's going tell him faster and kyesha life even for an hour is precious so the so the gemara says we're willing to sacrifice life for an hour in order to allow a person to live longer and that's why this is not our conversation but I wanted to highlight it that's why whiskey operations that a person could die on the table but if the operations are successful they can live for many years or many months is permitted that we said every moment of life is important because we allow you to take some risk you order to continue your life and there are to respond so which were not going to you too but you should have on pages source for at page 4 and page 5 response from the 17 and the 1800s we look at the transource 9 Source number 9 on page 5 you'll see that I just going to read this one rough High Moser grudzinski trashy last year saw the whole of our Roofing aluminum rim keep below is a very hard Hebrew word he below can someone read that word for me that he the word  going to 70 is from the 1800s from The Legend operation Operation will you tell me she shot for the ship it to us that without the operation he won't live for more than 6 but with the operation there's a chance that he'll live for longer but he could die on the table and they are we say it is permitted to take that risk  we also by the way life is critically important we don't require someone to prolong life if they're suffering for person is you know has no quality of life there is no responsibility to aggressively give them medicines or help them of those issues you're not required to do that you can't take away life but you cannot you don't have to increase life you have to make the person comfortable so frigg's ample I'm morphine drip a morphine drip will make the person what about a morphine drip will also slow respiration so it actually can cause someone to die faster but if the purpose of the morphine drip is not to kill the person but to make them feel you're allowed to actually put a / that takes precedence there's the issue of quantity of life but there's also an issue of volume life and that give me one second those are sources 10 sources 11 and sources 12 and 13 where ramosa Finestein and Rushlow Zalman Orba both say that sometimes when you say Amisha beira for whole lot you know what that Miss Rivera has four  for them to die if that's if that's  now they don't want to live with I remember when my parents asked me to become in charge of their you know end-of-life issues obviously hard for a child to take that responsibility but you need to understand what they want when God forbid it should never happened to them if they find themselves in a situation which is no quality of life how aggressive do they want to be  but they're better the same time that does not allow you to trim life or to end life earlier in order to take them out of their misery so they say yes  the patient is suffering and they ask the doctor on the sidewalk to the doctor that's a great question I think a Jewish doctor should say I'm not comfortable doing that and if I'm there legal issues here I'm assuming that the legal issues aren't going to get the person you know I can't ignore the legal issues but I am in answering your question would refer that the family to a different doctor who might be more comfortable doing it  any other questions yes sorry keep out of my line of sight I apologize cast your lot of side of DNR do not resuscitate do not resuscitate DNR DNR says that if you if you code and you your heart stops that you don't need aggressive aggressive actions in order to to sustain you but the DNR should be there should be parameters and some of offered it is in the car accident and because of that they are hard stops it could be the trauma of the car accident and then I wouldn't say you should do a DNR and the DN I should be very should be stipulate it's not because of some trauma that happened because a heart attack what oh it's a person is towards the end of their life and they are there living with tremendous amount of pain and they're in the hospital and if the heart stops they don't want it resuscitated because they just they don't Barbie news anymore  that's the idea of quality of life and quantity of life and why we skipped over at a little bit that's what the Camaro tells us that ready to do the Prince When Juju the prince had was having these challenges and the rap we're praying for his refuah Shalala speedy recovery his his his nurse went to the top the went to the top of the top of the house and dropped a plate the top of the house and when it's shattered everybody's Turlock what to happen at that point you to the prince died and she is blessed for what she did because what she did was she's in killed you to the prince but she realize that reputa RC was in pain didn't want to live without any quality of life and therefore stop the people who were praying that he should live with in this world that is The Benchmark that both Moshe financing and ribs and the time ago were used to say that if somebody is really ill you don't need to some IV fluid abadox or you can do it then are you still have to feed them you can't starve them to death  hey you can yet you have to make sure that the is some capacity for them to you know not to starve but you don't have to do heroic Measures to be able to Advocate stores 13 for second and top of page 700 Tammy's that near Aulani estate it seems to me to film him it started her day that if a person is a pain the open concession Woodside hello from electrospective Mitzvah Lavaca show love she removed it is his commandment to request if they die that they no longer be suffer doesn't mean you can pull the plug but you don't have to do aggressive actions resuscitating the heart is an aggressive action give me the IV meds is an aggressive action now that the IV is running you can't take it off but when the IV bag finishes you don't have to put a new one on yes feeding tube feeding tube you're not want to starve somebody that's not the medicines but sometimes feeding tubes actually hurt a person's ability to live because it causes them to choke even if it's feeding even if it's a peg in the stomach as the food goes up and can cause somebody to have difficulty breathing stuff but you're not allowed to stop them from getting food or saline solution that has various fluids but that's different jealous starve somebody but you don't have to give them medicines in order to cure any diseases that they have in their body is the difference between the two one is a proactive starving somebody you're not allowed to do that another thing is proactive doing heroic Measures you don't have to do that  anything to scan if a relic any medicines that a person's end-of-life are not required can't cut the medicines but you can't you don't have to add them an issue you should never have to know about okay what's going on cuz we got we got short amount of time we got a lot of work to still do are you allowed to put yourself a risk in order to save somebody else this is an important issue this is what we were talking about with the kidney transplant I'm a good snow so look at source and paid 7 519 let's look at the source if somebody sees everyone have the sorcerer 14 heaven with me I don't hear you are you with me yes your friend is drowning or even if it's not your friend list and buy him a Love or robbers are coming Ohio Rubble of aura or bad the yellow and you can save them who bought smoke OSHA your scarf and lots you you can't swim but you can hire somebody to go save them below hit ceiling you have OSHA Sharma obica Carbon on mushrooms maximal of raw or you hear that a non-jew or Jew  what season is Johnny how do you hire some you see somebody you can't swim the person next to you can't swim save up I'll pay you I'll pay you later  what you pay later you just you know you pop them over the money right oh my oh my soul of a row or Tomlin low will give us and cover about deal  soda bar play his last few words of this haha hurry over a low tunnel Dada Maria how you cannot stand idly by and let your brothers let your friend's blood you spell and this is not just found in the code of Jewish law that she'll put a roof it is found in the round bottom also call her Yahoo Source 15 the hot Sea of Love wit sale anyone who can save someone and doesn't over all low tamil.com Riata transgresses the probation of standing idly by while your brother is blood or your friends by spell I want to just get this pizza post look at source 16 look at this  Source 16 are you allowed to put yourself wrist to save somebody else Babylonian and Jerusalem talmud disagree on this issue the Babylonian talmud says you know how to put yourself at risk to Jerusalem what says that you must put yourself at risk look at source 16 someone else another person Chris is not mean you killing yourself argument among them who follow one we show some others fall on different we can discuss that what is the Shamu show me the religious decisis bring down basins Jerusalem Thomas or 16 the high of other lockness is odd smell of suffix that, that you can put himself in some risk they'll have to have their own order to save his friend ask if Neisha Bashaw Solano in arches in the Babylonian toss it seems like you don't have to put yourself at risk so the artificial hun who was the code of fire of Jewish law  he just know what to do the Babylonian Thomas's angels on Thomas's another thing he says who me you Arcola Feed her inion you really have to look at every case distinctly wishlist go Hutton Yonder fellows and you should really evaluate the issue properly for Lola Schwartz at small you tell me die and don't be so overly concerned about your own when you when you are afraid when you know that person will definitely die was that Nana and this is what it says in the posset and goes on whoever saves another human being is if they save a whole world this is the question about donating an organ while you're alive  statement made I have two kidneys I donate one of them I can still live I can still run the marathon I can do whatever I want but if something ever happens to that kidney I'm in real trouble can I donate a kidney in order to save somebody who needs it without me don't either Kenny that guy will definitely die Jew or not Jew on my way to donate that kidney or not okay we're not talking about that no one's taking that presents kidney title eat there their and they're like living there life regularly if you donate one can you still have one left it's the same exact thing so the question then is I'm not allowed to put myself in some risk like what you yes on top of the lid so there's a risk but there's a very likely chance of they'll be saved project renewal hey Google renewal you'll see this whole organization that actually works on transplants is actually a religious doctor who works add the y u Hospital Montefiore and works on these issues for dr. Greenstein and issues of donating live organs as a rabbi in Teaneck Larry Roth wax that just donated an organ kidney last week There's a colleague of mine that I work with Rabbi sitting there who donated in Oregon an kidney the question is are you permitted to donate kidney so here we have a response or 17 from Isaac Jacob Weiss who is the rabbi in the Ada radius community in which line is anyone here the guys in there the people in the shower the wonderful juice that live in the shower if my point is this is not like modern left-wing Rabbi this is a pretty serious he's no longer but he dealt with a lot of these issues so the question is is a person allowed to donate a kidney  so he answers and that is that it is permitted because of the fact that you are putting yourself at some rest but as you said not so much risk that you shouldn't take that chance it's not how long it's not how love it we permit it like for example if you don't donate a kidney you haven't transgressed any probation because the talmud that require you to put yourself at risk to save somebody but it's not considered forbidden it's considered a mitsuba so I'm like for example somebody who's drowning will you save them will you can hire some of the saving if you don't do what you've transgressed approbation and don't need any kidney since the Babylonian Tom with does not emphasized responsibility to put yourself at any risk to save somebody else it's not considered a violation if you don't donate a kidney but it's considered a misfit if you do and revelry mule safe and Source number 18 how many people have heard of if I do say by show of hands okay if I do you say the former Chief rabbits party Chief rabbi who died two years ago was one of the major personalities within the Jewish community of a video safe on the top of page 9 of 19 says the following normally is responsive Airy long and this one's a little bit long but I shortened it for us hold out top of annoying everyone have this  Colette clay out someone who has the disease of the kidneys both in Brittany Action News Cafe II elephant it will be that his life is at risk I am rushing club there or Evelyn which Baja is it permitted for a friend or relative letrone locally hahaha. Trill how to find a row can you give one of your kidneys to save a friend omiki Venture Association possession a little rain there still a danger to a donor to the person giving the kids to the donor ain't level of hotness a small the stuff is a kind of I feel I'm an alcoholic Avero me father perhaps you know how to put yourself in some second on order to save somebody who'll be definite Sakana and here's a revatio safe answer underlined so I want to read it for me it's four lines and very the Hebrew come on yes Russia which Rome clear a fat machleit oh la la la mesa rehabilitate what does that mean you don't have to it's not a man did it's a mitzvah Missoula hanging out or MLF how monkey and the person who does his revenues hips aspartic Chief Rabbi you know Spartan thank God they you don't give a I hope he says and you'll be saved and you'll be protected in thousand different ways become a violation ourselves a rock a day Roofing have to make sure that the doctor's okay that you can actually donate the kidney and you'll be okay just because you want to do it if the doctors don't sign off on it that's a violation of holla you need to make this decision with doctors for schommer Mitzvah low you drive around the person who does this Mitzvah will not no evil if I shame you spell Rockies left of a row I'll pay the whole holy I'm always welcome here and God should heal all of the sick amongst our people okay or live donations Are knitted not mandated permitted and it is considered a Mitzvah but you need to make sure that you get doctor's approval yes but we got we got to move cuz we got to we haven't got to go to the next Source but gone  yes sometimes is the easiest cuz you're more most compatible  I have a cousin who donated a kidney to his father-in-law  yes okay yes I am striking out here so you know I'm just like this the rest of the time I'll be great okay is it Caleb someone drowning not a good person like a bad person who's done a lot of evil things are you I don't think that I don't I don't think we are the judges of people I think we have to try to save them yeah I don't think that that's a fact on the conversation okay this is the next source that we're going to do is the most important Source this is the major debate amongst all rabbinic authorities okay the next source did you help with a sorceress number 19 okay I need everyone's attention for the next two sources everything depends that we're going to do now on the next two sources is a building tumbles down and is doubtful whether anyone is buried beneath the ruins or not  it is down whether he be dead or alive it is permitted to remove the ruins from above him on the Sabbath why nefesh Shabbos play  my son in the Army just asked me this unbelievable question maybe you can help me with the answer ready for this question it's about Shabbos  sazabi when you're on the border you don't really keep Shabbat cuz you have to do all these stuff so I said you are keeping Shabbat you just keeping different type of s*** but she does I know that when I go out and I am doing guard Duty and time or other places I'm allowed to carry my gun I'm allowed to carry the bullets in a lot of carry With Grenades and lava carryout border and like Harry snacks  but here's my question like when you do smear off at 7 8 hours and you get a 15 minute break sometimes you just need to chill am I allowed to carry on Shabbat obviously there's no a Revenge fan am I allowed to carry on Shabbat a book so when that 15-20 minutes of break I can chill by reading a book  so the gun is definitely permitted carrying Shabbat the bullets are definitely permitted to carry each other what about the book  yeah that's what I said and I said you should carry the book where the what's the bullet so that he's already carrying in that pocket something that's permitted to carry the book so therefore none of the book the bullets they are for the books also permitted to carry in question when it's when it's when it's when is to make sure that somebody is life is it's easy to say it's not good I know a lot of people that can very easily dismissed the opportunity to be able to say it's good that easy the heart thing is fine to find a way it's good and by the way since it's my own son and I felt that I would be what's going okay of the dove are they wouldn't answer honestly I called my teacher rubbish after who after he cried when I asked the question told me a hundred percent that he's carry book so I figured if Road Shafter said it's okay okay I was just say the guy in the beer that that doesn't narrow down the guy next to the guy that appeared between real cooking okay okay let's go on okay alright  I want to buy something okay here's the thing so you're alive what on Shabbat to remove the ruins in order to see if somebody is still alive if they're dead you can't do in a shell that you have to wait till my Shabbat  if there's doubt you definitely cuz we suspend all rules to save life and look at source 20 the rabbis when the body under the ruins seems dead what members are to be brought and examined as far and it was when you check the body so if someone is dead and there's no air of even if there isn't a row that someone's dead and there's and you can't move them if they're dead you wait till months of Shabbat how do you check if a person to life or not  so well that's your understanding that's not to come as far as the nose breathing other say tell what's going on other say as far as the heart they go up to the heart papa says the sages differ when one has commenced the examination From Below upwards but from above downwards if you check from the head and bottom that is when the nose has been found to have ceased breathing no further examination is needed by the way you don't you obviously check if there's anything that's stopping you from breathing or anything else of that nature and obviously in our day and age when we can resuscitate and things of that nature we would bring that equipment and resuscitate right then and there but the town was which is giving from centuries ago really has an important piece here cuz what is it defining as the definition of life  not breathing breathing defines life look at Rashi Source 21 Idaho until the knows they Ming Hao youth Kokomo if there is no life in the nose chain Emoji Rua 598 he's definitely dead Valley anywho who and you can't move him okay  National Record of Isis the same way yes highways and an answer this you would still you would do everything you just said the law my point of that is we would if there was someone wasn't breathing and they were and they were there I would remove them myself and you would resuscitate them because we have more advanced technology my point here is not about what you do what's the technology we have now my point here is how do we Define life no I am saying just the opposite if they're not breathing and we can bring it back to life that you would you would you would still violate the Shabbat and you would take them my point here is not about what we do now you would do whatever you can and you resuscitate then my point is how does Judaism find what life is what is the definition of life in Judaism in the story  right so that your let you have do everything so even the person wasn't breathing you still save him in our day and age cuz we have aggressive ways of saving somebody but in the time of our Papa they didn't have you no ways causing the heart to beat or resuscitating them and stuff like that then if someone's not reading and you can take their organs for an organ donation I need to be there at 10 if you're there at 10:45 okay you got to give me 10 minutes but my point is one second I just want to make sure everyone gets his cut this is the most important issue we can discuss  I need make sure everyone is clear according to this toilet if the definition is that you do that you check until the nose what does what does the nose indicate why what happens what can you fill in the nose breath that means the talmud is defining life and death based on breath  where is breath where is breath is turn to the next page where does breath what causes one to breathe what  set no not this will hemispheres the brain stem the brain stem  my brain stem the brainstem everyone with me the brain stem creates the brainstem creates defines life in the Defiance breathing spontaneous respiration cancel the brainstem according to this chimera  what is the definition of life the brain stem someone understand what I just said cuz this is really the most important piece that we're going to do okay I need everyone's Focus here one second I want to take the is but you got to let me make sure I went to town but is saying that they Defined Life as breathing and breathing is controlled if you turn to page 11 of 19 where it says brainstem brainstem controls spontaneous respiration dilation of pupils and a whole bunch of other things we're not going to go into all so what's the definition of life is breath and breath comes from the brain stem the definition of death is when the brain stem is no longer functional when the brain stem is no longer functions  not really alive from the respirator so it would seem that artificial breathing or artificial heart palpitations you're still not a lot you're not alive until you can Harvest organs including Moshe Feinstein which were going to watch in a second the end of life is breathing if someone's not breathing but the blood is still flowing through the body so the organs are fresh  the person is dead allafrica Lee and therefore you can harvest the organs it's not like the case I gave you the 75 year old only has 15 minutes to live and you cannot let the 15 minutes you can't snuff out that 15 minutes because his 50 or her 15 minutes has already passed do you get that this is so important because if I if you what's wrong you can make a caramel mistakes  okay the definition of life and death according to the chimera play the some rabbis the definition of life and death is brain stem the reason why I will not allow organ donation to put on my card is because most most definitions of death says if the cerebal hemispheres the upper part of the brain is dead then you're dead says no the cerebal hemispheres could stop working but if the brain stem is working you still alive no it's more than a, it means you won't have if you'll be in a vegetative state and we more than you can look up surival hemispheres and what it does but my point is make me very careful are definition for definition what are definition is and Reb Moshe Feinstein one second remote revising Source number 10 tells us the definition of is look at 23 not going to read the whole thing inside and that is look at the first look at V sea mansion have tested ology low heel shoe Shoe Source 10-page 10 Source 23 Ocean hufcut V Line  sister-in-law he gives you some if you don't feel any life hubud inmate and what is the death turn of light the dekat hanashima the ability to promotion Finestein warns us sometimes you can be in a horrible car accident brain stem stops working why does the brain stem stuff working because of brain trauma and you could still be still alive so in a case in which has been heavy went to the brain then all bets are off you can't consider the person dead but in a normal case of things when a person's brain stem stops functioning the person is no longer considered a live-in you can donate organs  that's what remote you find some says it's not only remotion funniest thing but if you turn to by the way I'm page 12 of 19 I give you like a test of how to do that if you turn to page 13 of 19 Proclamation issued by the rabbis of Israel you'll read this inside but all of these Rabbi said the definition of life is brainstem function return to page 16 of 19 yo safe and Robbie astral realm are Sparta Chief rabbis said the definition of life is is brain stem function everything based on the Camaro we learnt and in fact is an unbelievable interview with him that he says my father said the definition of life is breathing play something Camaro that you and I learn together today not everybody agrees with this opinion  rubbish actor for example of a chef South that the definition of life is not just what the camera says cuz her other cameras and rubbish after and rough shlomo's turn our backs on our bodies are major Titans look at page 19 of 19 the last source we were asked to reveal our opinion what who wants to read this isn't English page 19 of 19  who wants the Raiders Jurassic VR opinion with people tomorrow Bureau by Papago Park downstairs on the half of the address to the location to do about the transportation Oregon CCB license patients whose lives are in danger  respirator and his heart is still beating even the situation in which time turn it off and called green death in spite of all this our opinion is that is not all permissible to remove even one organ from the potential job I'm such an act may possibly because it is a shedding of was so here you have to Great rabbis look so Mazama or about and rushes to Titans and rubbish after Hey listen I know what this kimara says but there are other cameras that Define life based on heart beating and so therefore you cannot donate Oregon's while the heart is still beating you can donate organs after the heart stops beating which but their other organs are still good Leo's are other organs you can still dance  has make a difference about the corneas and others for certain organs the heart beating makes difference like is your heart stops beating and there's no  oh David Speedy rose on the brainstem isn't isn't that cuz the brain cells what causes those things to happen right so it's not happy that's not that's not the but the difference is my conclusion which is a really important thing is organ donation is helical permitted and I would save him more than halajko be mandated at the end of 100 or mushy, see if you gave your is God's going to give you a find new eyes for you if you gave a kidney if you gave a liver God's going to find those new organs you know it's if God can take you is a dust in the grave and make you into a human being again he can also figure out a way to give you new new corneas and it's an unbeliever of tuna doing play even after you no longer living the question is what is the list of organs that you can give and that is the argument between the tight is of Jewish Community one second the titans of the Jewish committee Reb Moshe Feinstein the Israeli chief rabbinate  and so many other play tendler and others who say the definition of life is what the Tomlin says breath breath is controlled by the brain stem function and they are for once your brainstem Anna longer functioning you can give any organs you want there you're no longer alive you're dead a coin cannot go into the room with a person the heart is still beating but the brain stem isn't functioning but says Revel Yasha Rush after show Mazama torba and others know the heart still reading as most of you seem to indicate in the beginning of our conversation the person still alive the heart is a piece of an integral piece weather it's beating on its own or being helped and therefore it until that heart stops beating which could be days after the brainstem stops functioning even order chill you can't keep it alive forever you're still you're still considered a live and you have no right and you have no right to give give no right to give in Oregon yes can I kiss her that day if you have an irregular heartbeat or something and you have the option of putting in a pacemaker you don't that like possibly like committing suicide what else is going on with your health if it's just an irregular heartbeat if you don't do it I think it's  is give me a second are the judgements then I think you really have to do it I don't think you I don't think it's committing suicide but I don't think it's the right thing to do to say it's going to suicide is too strong what's an active act but I think you you have a responsibility to put in that pacemaker  yes  suicide is when you do something active to end life not when you do something passive but it is I think it's a wrong thing not to put in the pacemaker for me to classify the suicide is a very statements in one that I'm not willing to make but I think it is wrong I think it is forbidden not to put in the pacemaker but I don't think it's suicide okay yes question it first one not a doctor so I can't really answer that with great clarity but I'm pretty sure that it means that most of the brain isn't totally functioning but there still could be pieces secretion of hormones what's another things that can still be happening yes how do we know that they don't know that we know that the gemara was referring to Shafter saying that the saying that's very nice but it's just referring to one thing you can't make this conclusion the way you're making it but others will say the Kamara is giving us a principal principal is the definition of life is breathing now that we know where the breathing comes from we can use that as our principal is that your articulation Rachel's articulation of how to use the Chimera is the fault line between the rabbinic sources  her articulation set for twine but I want you to understand both opinions and the conclusion has to be that organs are permitted to be donated it's up to each and every one of you in this room as tell me these sources hopefully with a little bit more depth to decide which group of rabbis you want to follow ask your identities which group of rabbits they follow but that fault line is the fault line on the issue okay we should show this for a second  my father's position very simply that the Stockton your breathing is appointed that's not of the hardest function Shawn disease stops breathing considered that that's the way you need to go menu that's what we just did  the other sister tested breathing in Las Vegas sorry. The same thing really messed up that's the same day  Hudson Stevenson heart still beating anything else have a good day that's all not into guys start without guidelines I just want you sometimes hearing it from the Sun is more even stronger than me just saying it  South interview goes on for a few more minutes but I wanted to know if there were any more questions  chess I'm sorry with love that movie off while the judge is going on blood is the song Blood the greatness about blood is that who can you donate blood and it does not put your life at risk if you don't any blood would put your life at risk like for example we won't accept from if I'm certain people in certain countries or if you were in a certain country for a certain time we won't accept your blood then we don't blood does not in any way put your life at risk donating an organ when you're about to die or when you're an hour away from Death or five days away from Death or 5 seconds away from Death Before Your Huffy dead terminate your life Charlie that's forbidden I want to summarize for second and take the final questions let's review what we talked about we talked about the prohibitions of abusing the spotty right we talked about that we explain that there's an exception and that is when the body can be used to further help somebody else to know W who do we talked about every length of life is considered important at the same time quality of life is also important not just quantity of life and therefore you don't have to do heroic Measures to keep somebody alive we talked about donating organs while you're alive that it's not a mandated responsibility it is a Mitzvah because putting yourself at some risk is not a hoe requirement then we talked about the definition of death and the ramifications of that definition on the responsibility to donate organs that's what we did today  yes I wanted to ask about doing a Jahara of somebody who has donated many or I don't think I've ever done a thousand times but I know that I have done taharas on somebody who a long incision that was so will I get to do the Sahara I would assume that's what they would do I'm a Cohen so I've never done to harvest but that's what I would send you if you would do you would donate Oregon it would be stitched out properly so that at the harbor could be done respectful  course of course  just the opposite suggest to someone who donates in Oregon to serves at the higher up because they've been able to do a Mitzvah that you can posthumous Lee yes how does one become a call the website of an organ donation society and download the thing and you could and they'll send you a card on the back of the card you have to decide are you going to follow the go to definition of life is breathing or the definition of life is cardiac cessation the fault line to your local orthodox okay  why I assume that a certain age you don't need parental consent in a certain age you do and you should have message with your parents anyways who knows they might also join  okay okay it was real pleasure to spend some time with you well Rafael I believe that knowledge is power and it's always important to allow while I believe that knowledge is power and that it is always important to make sure that young people are aware important issues when we discuss the sanctity and which we Accord someone who's passed on it highlights also the sanctity of life and with young people sometimes when they think that you know nothing can affect them and that they can do anything and they're like superhuman learning about the sanctity of life can help them live a more purposeful life the second thing is that most of our young people will go out after high school and they'll go out into a larger World wherever they decide to go to university and they're going to face certain challenges about life and they going to face certain challenges about organ donations getting to learn about these issues I think it's important that they look at them through the prism of Jewish values I think I can hold them well and as they become active members in the community it's important for them to realize that they can a members of the community that deals with the fabric Edition as they make certain decisions about their own life about the responsibility to give you know workings when How likely permissible and therefore being able to have this conversation in an environment which is nurturing and allows there to be a conversation not just sound bites I think is is wonderful and important  I think that it is important for high school students especially those in our society to realize the Judaism speaks about the values of helping others organ donations please but it will not be an issue that they deal with for a minimum of 120 years but organ donations is something that speaks to that value Jews cannot just be recipients of organs within a holla contacts they have to also agree to be donors of organs and what better way to teach her young people who are going to realize that part of what enhance is us and nurtures us as human beings is to give and I give him we receive so much in return to realize that Jewish War tells us that we have to people in need the Jewish law tells us that we have a responsibility to heal the world heal fractured World it shouldn't be that are young for walk out of high school and asks the you know the the famous joke how do you say tikkun Olam in Hebrew cuz they don't realize the teecoon alarm is age say a concept let alone a Hebrew term at um you deter so when we talk about the responsibilities of organ donation and we talked about it through the prism of Jewish values I think has has their sensitivity about the role of haha in the process

Videos

Halachic Issues Regarding Autopsy and Organ Donation (Rabbi Kenneth Brander)

More videos in The Final Journey